Category Archives: Tinder

Joseph Schooling ’s Tinder Rejection Shows How Hard it is to Get Internet Dates

If you are going to do internet dating you must keep it in mid that girls are flakey and unresponsive.  Joseph Schooling is an Olympian who won a Gold medal.  A few months before the Olympics, he matched with a not very cute girl on Tinder and look what happened.

He couldn’t get past the second message either

Even if you are a great looking man with a ton going on she still probably will drop you for no reason what so ever because girls drop men on Tinder for no reason at all.  Now look at the picture of the girl who though she was too cute for Joseph Schooling:

She’s too good to message an Olympian on Tinder

The girl who ignored Joseph Schooling’s Tinder message is a very average looking girl.  At best she is a 5.  In terms of body type, Joseph Schooling is easily a 10.  His body is better than your body and better than my body.  However this very average girl still felt that she was too good for him.

When it comes to using Tinder and the internet for getting dates you have to understand that competition for every girl is intense.  Every semi-cute girl gets more male attention than we can even imagine.  Even Olympians struggle to get dates off of Tinder as Joseph Schooling can attest.

When you use Tinder you must make sure always to say something interesting as soon as possible.  You can’t send “Good thabks!  Whatcha up to” for your second Tinder message.  If you want to get dates from the internet and Tinder you need to fire off something interesting right from the get go.  If she doesn’t find you entertaining she will get rid of you.

Tinder and internet dating is a difficult crucible where women reject men for little to no reason.  She might stop responding to you because she got a lot of other male messages at the same time she got your message.  She might have been so distracted by their attention that she never even noticed your message and didn’t see it.  You have to accept that on Tinder and the internet girls will just drop out for no reason at all.

One of the hardest adjustments many men have when dating on Tinder and the internet is how much casual rejection they will have to deal with.  At least 70% of all of your matches will not respond to your first message no matter what you do.  Of the 30% of all messages who respond to your first message, half will ignore your second message.  This is just the way it is on Tinder and internet dating.  Even after you find something really interesting to send girls, they still will ignore you.  You just have to toughen up your skin and deal with the rejection.

Tinder and internet dating is tough.  Even Olympian Joseph Schooling gets ignored by 5’s.  If you want to get dates from Tinder and the internet then you need to message lots of girls and you better make your first 2 messages really interesting or else she will ignore you, even if you are an Olympian.

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How I used Roosh’s GALNUC to Get a 1st Date from Tinder

A few months ago I was having lots of girls from Tinder flake on dates 1 hour before the date.  I realized that I needed to make changes on how I tried to get dates from Tinder.  I decided to use GALNUC to try to cut down on flaking before dates.  After I matched with a new girl on Tinder and I got chatting with her I used Roosh‘s GALNUC technique from his very important book Day Bang to get her out on a first date.  She didn’t flake 1 hour before the date and we had a nice first date.

GALNUC is a series of questions to ask a girl and have mini conversations about them to inspire her to want to go on a date with you.  GALNUC stands for:

G- Are you half German?

A- What is your age?

L- Where do you live?

N- What is your phone number?

U- Where do you usually hang out?

C- You seem like an interesting girl.  Let’s keep this conversation going. . .

Let’s take a look at my conversation with this Tinder match and how I used GALNUC to get her out on a 1st date.

To start the conversation I just used the most basic opener.  I just said Hi.  Most girls on Tinder don’t even respond to even saying “Hi”  so it doesn’t make sense to say more than “Hi” before she at least responds.  After she responded to my opener I knew that she had at least enough interest in me to respond.  Then I asked her a simple “How are you” type question while dropping a piece of conversation bait about my day.

She gave a small acknowledgement about my small piece of bait but didn’t want to talk about it.  She at least told me what she was up to.  She wasn’t giving me much to work with, but I expected that.  She gave me a small piece of bait by giving me information about what she was doing.

I gave her a follow up question about where she went to the pool but I wrapped it up in asking here where she lived and I also challenged her about where she was.  I always try to avoid questions like, “Where are you from” or “Who do you know” because they always devolve into a boring interview and the girl always loses interest.

I got her to respond, but she still wasn’t showing much interest.  She wasn’t showing much interest but she was still responding.  I decided to drop a couple of pieces of bait but NOT include a question.  I figured that at this point either she needed to show at least some interest and invest a little bit in the conversation or it was time to end the conversation.  I dropped bait about where I lived and I pointed out that I was on a business trip and the weather was great.  There was lots of bait and if she wanted to keep talking then she would find a way to keep the conversation going.

BOOM!  She asked me a question about my business trip.  At this point I knew that she was interested in keeping the conversation going.  I figured that I could go right into Roosh’s GALNUC technique here.  However I decided to build a little more comfort by talking about my business trip and my family.  After talking about my family I asked her about her family and she gave me her biggest answer yet and giving more information so I could see her opening up.

I knew that it was time to use GALNUC so I asked her if she was part German.  She told me her European heritage so I gave her some banter about being a French girl.  She was very happy to talk about being a French-Italian girl and even gave me a follow up question about my hometown.  It’s important to see how I don’t just rush through the GALNUC questions but I let each of them be part of a conversation and banter a little bit about each of them.

After we bantered about where I lived she talked about how she would be interested in checking out my town, which was a big indicator of interest because she was signaling that she would be interested in being in my town and implying that it would be so easy to meet up.

At this point it was time to move on in GALNUC.  I already knew her age because everybody’s age is on Tinder so I didn’t need to know that plus I already knew where she lived from earlier in the conversation.  I asked her what she liked to do for fun which was like the GALNUC question, “Where do you usually hang out?”

She gave me standard boiler plate stuff all girls say when you ask them what they like to do.  From this standard answer all girls give you can see why it is so important for men to have lots of interesting hobbies and interests because girls’ lives are so boring and repetitive.

At this point I decided to continue GALNUC by using, “You seem like an interesting girl.  Let’s continue the conversation. . .”  I gave her a day and time for us to set up the date.  We then worked out the details over a few back and forth messages.

It is interesting to see how it seems like she is being difficult.  Many times when a girl isn’t interested in going out they make things difficult.  I didn’t know if she was being difficult but I went ahead and worked out different times and locations until a got one that worked for both of us.

Finally we were able to agree on a day and time.  I wrapped up the conversation by confirming the day and time.  As soon as the date was set up I got out of the conversation.

One of the ways that lots of men mess up getting dates off Tinder is by continuing to talk after they get the date set up.  They over talk with girls and girls either lose interest or girls feel like he is just a pen pal and lose interest in going out on a date with him.

GALNUC is a powerful tool to use to get girls out on dates.  You can use it in daily life or online.  It will cut down on the number of girls who flake on dates and makes it so that you become the kind of man who is able to use Tinder to get real life first dates.

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Girls Know Being Fat Makes Them Gross

I was on a 10 day working vacation in Utah and decided to fire up Tinder to try to find some quick short term dating options.  One of the things that quickly jumped out at me was the way the vast majority of the girls would manipulate the camera.  Most of the girls on Tinder were FAT, but they so desperately wanted to get lots of Tinder matches.  They used every body contortion and manipulation possible.  Lots of them posted photos of themselves with their cuter friends, trying to trick you into swiping right, hoping it’s the cute friend.  They would take photos of themselves where half of their bodies were cut out of the frame, as if that would confuse us.  They would do extreme close ups on their faces to try to look sort of cute.  Any man who has spent any time on Tinder knows all the tricks unattractive girls use to get men to swipe right.  This isn’t new information.  The thing that jumps out at me from this incident is girls know being fat makes them gross.

When you take a step back for a second it is revolutionary to realize all women’s talk about body positivity and beauty at any size is empty rhetoric.  They know it’s all nonsense.  Deep down every chubster knows she is just an unappealing woman who no man with options wants.  Fat women know they aren’t fooling anybody.  They know being fat makes them gross.

It’s important for men to know that girls know being fat makes them gross.  Once you know that girls know, it is a lot easier to resist propaganda telling men all women are beautiful no matter how gross they look.  In the Mormon community some local church leaders have started to tell confused men they should give that really sweet fat girl a chance.  Once you know that she knows that she looks like a gross disgusting cow, you can easier reject that laughably bad advice.  Girls know being fat makes them look gross, so don’t you forget it either.

Mormon Women Love Tinder

Despite all of the laundry list of problems with Tinder, Mormon women use it.  Because Mormon women use it, the Tinder problem isn’t going away.  Just because Mormon church leadership hates Tinder, doesn’t mean that LDS singles are going to stop Tinder anytime soon.  Let’s take a look at why Mormon women love Tinder and won’t stop using it anytime soon.

A few weeks ago, I was visiting a mid-singles ward.  Mid-singles wards are very depressing places because they are the place where the people who just didn’t quite make it in life end up.  Attractive LDS men in their 30’s don’t want to attend mid-singles wards because they are successfully trolling for women in their 20’s.  The only men who attend mid-singles wards are the men, who can’t attract 20 something women.  The women who attend mid-singles wards are the not attractive women, the divorced women and the women who made career a focus instead of family.  Mid-singles wards are just sad depressing places where nobody wants anybody.

I hadn’t visited the local MSA ward in about 8 months, so I figured that it was time to go ahead and give it a visit.  I visited on a fast and testimony Sunday.  One of the men got up and started to talk.  He didn’t talk about his belief in the Gospel or how the Gospel made him a better man.  No he got up and talked about how he had a first date.  He droned on and on about the fact that he went on a date.  It was clear that it was the first date he had ever been on in his whole life.  And this guy was easily 35 or so.

I looked around at the women in the pews.  The look on their faces was the look of horror and disgust.  Of the handful of attractive women in the room, you could see the expression of, “if we were the last two people on Earth, I would let humanity die.”  The women just had this look of total disgust and even worse despair.  They looked as if there was no hope of ever meeting even a marginally interesting LDS man in their ward.  I watched to see if any of the women would open up their smart phones and start swiping left or right from inside the chapel.  I didn’t notice any of them swiping left or right but I’m willing to bet that as soon as they got home, lots of these women fired up Tinder in an attempt to find somebody better than the men in their MSA ward.

Sadly, as long as our church continues to mass produce clueless men, with no social savvy, LDS women will continue to seek other options in the dating market.  They have to.  Let’s face it, there is a minimal level of social savvy all men must acquire if they want to have any kind of a dating life.  Sadly, lots of LDS men never gain nearly enough social savvy to attract women.

LDS women love Tinder because they have more control over who they connect with.  On regular dating sites attractive women receive more emails than they can handle.  For example a girl I dated told me about the time she decided to use match.com.  The day after creating her account, she had over 1,000 emails from local men, the vast majority of whom she was not attracted to.  She promptly closed her account.  If you want to see the problems most reasonably attractive women have with internet dating, do a simple experiment:

Find some pictures of an attractive woman, get permission to use the photos of an attractive woman you are friends with.  Then create a fake on-line profile on an internet dating site, like Match.com, or Okcupid or Plenty of Fish.  What you will find is you get absolutely flooded with messages and chat requests.  One woman showed me what it was like when she logged into her Okcupid account.  As soon as she logged in men started to message her and many of the messages were crude.  She received multiple messages saying, “DTF?”  (DTF means down to fuck).  It was sad and pathetic to see what women have to put up with online.

Tinder eliminates this problem.  If she isn’t at least somewhat attracted to him, she just swipes him left and she will never receive a message from him, ever.  Women really like the power to make sure that men they don’t find interesting never have the power to message them and bother them.

Mormon women love Tinder because it makes looking for men very convenient.  Women can use Tinder from the convenience of their own homes.  Before if a LDS girl wanted to go looking for a man, she had to get dressed, put on makeup and leave her house.  Now she can sit in her pajamas, in front of the TV and not have to bother with men she finds uninteresting while talking with men she finds attractive.  Of course a major side effect of this problem is it erodes these women’s social skills and takes away the important task of leaving the house and actually having a life but, that’s beyond the scope of this series.

Attractive LDS men have a similar problem.  Outside of Utah the Mormon community is very small.  Local LDS singles get to know each other quickly.  After a relatively short amount of time, the attractive LDS single adult men have met and possibly dated most of the interesting LDS women in their area.  LDS men need more dating options.  Tinder is the most effective place for them to meet interesting women.  LDS men who have exhausted their local single adult dating options want to stay in the dating game without having to move.  Until LDS men have a better option than Tinder to expand their dating options, they will continue to use Tinder.

It’s sad to say this, but let’s face it the church cannot tell people to reject the world if it doesn’t offer them anything better.  If the church wants men and women to stop using Tinder then the church needs to come up with a better solution.  Saying, “don’t you dare use Tinder” is not enough motivation to motivate LDS single adults to avoid Tinder.

Mormon women love Tinder and this isn’t going to change.  LDS women love Tinder because it gives them access to men better than the pathetic chumps they have to deal with at church, because they don’t have to receive unwanted messages from desperate hordes of pathetic men and because it allows women to look for men from the convenience of their homes.  Attractive men love Tinder because it streamlines dating and gives them more dating options.  For all of its problems, Tinder is a popular and useful dating tool and isn’t going away anytime soon.

LDS Church Leadership is Barking Up the Wrong Tree with Tinder

As we talked about in part 1 of the Tinder series, LDS church leadership is unhappy about the rise of dating apps like Tinder, with good reason.  Church leadership’s response so far has been to tell men to stop using Tinder.  Unfortunately LDS church leadership is barking up the wrong tree with Tinder.

In the priesthood session of General Conference, President Ballard told LDS men sitting and listening to his talk “to get off Tinder.”  At the exact same time, Mormon church leadership never once told women to stop using Tinder.  I combed through all the talks in Women’s session of General Conference and found nothing.  The silence was truly deafening.  The irony is, it’s the women driving demand for Tinder and not the men.

Women control the modern dating market.  Attractive women have huge amounts of power in the dating market.  In the modern dating market women only want to date the most interesting and attractive men.  Take a look at this graph:

Look at the doted line, the dotted line represents how women rate men.  Women find 80% of all men on Okcupid.com below average in desirablility.  Think about that.  It is the perfect example of the 80/20 rule, where 80% of women want the same 20% of men.  80% of men don’t make it into the top 20% of men and women don’t desire them.

Women go on Tinder because they want to gain access to the top 20% of men.  Women want to date the highest level men possible.  They have the best access to these men on apps like Tinder.  Telling LDS men to stop using Tinder doesn’t change the preferences in women.  They still want the most desirable men and Tinder is an easy place to meet them.

Telling Mormon men to stop using Tinder causes other problems.  Let’s face it, most members of the church are cheap.  Members of the church don’t like to pay money for anything.  Tinder is free.  Lots of LDS men and women use Tinder as a free dating app.  If LDS men stop using it, in Utah, Tinder becomes more of a pure hookup app.  It also will funnel women to the men who remain on Tinder.

The LDS men who ignore church leadership’s advice to stop using Tinder gain added benefits.  If the vast majority of LDS men stop using Tinder, the men who remain will have more Tinder dating options.  Also the Mormon men who stay are more likely to be the kinds of LDS men who are willing and happy to violate the Law of Chastity.  By getting the men off of Tinder the unintended consequence is more sex for the men who remain and more heartbreak for the women on Tinder because the “good men” left Tinder.

If LDS church leadership wants to get Mormon singles to stop using Tinder (and we can all agree that’s a good idea), then the church needs to inspire women to stop using it.  Women control the dating market.  Men go where the women are and avoid where the women aren’t.  If the women aren’t on Tinder, then men won’t go there.  If women are on Tinder, men will go there.  It’s really just that plain and simple.

Women control the dating market.  Women get to choose how relationships play out.  If women want dating to focus on courtship and marriage by rewarding the men who give women these things, then the dating market will focus on courtship and marriage.  If the dating market is based on hooking up, undefined relationships and high promiscuity it is because women reward men who focus on these behaviors.  If Mormon church leadership is unhappy with the nature of Tinder relationships (and they should be), then church leadership needs to take the problem up with women.  After all women are the ones in control over the dating market.

Shaming men and telling men to get off of Tinder is the wrong way to remove Tinder from the lives of LDS singles.  If church leadership needs to inspire women not to want to use Tinder.  LDS church leadership is barking up the wrong tree with Tinder.

(In part 3, we will take a look at why LDS women like Tinder and why Tinder isn’t going away anytime soon).

So I Met this Guy on Tinder

Mormon church leaders have been talking about Tinder a lot recently.  President Ballard talked about it in priesthood session while shaming men in attendance for not being good enough.  Church leadership doesn’t like Tinder at all.  Let’s face it, these days when a young woman enters a bishop’s office to confess her sins, the first thing the bishop hears is, “so I met this guy on Tinder. . .,”

As bishops compare notes, certain patterns appear, and Tinder is one of the things that comes up a lot, when it comes to hearing about how LDS singles fall into sin.  Church leadership is correct to hate Tinder for a wide variety of reasons.  At the same time Tinder and it’s soon to be branches are not going away anytime soon.  This is the first in a 3 part discussion about the Tinder phenomenon.  In part 1 we will discuss why Mormon church leadership hates Tinder, in part 2 we will discuss why LDS church leadership is barking up the wrong tree when they try to shame men for using Tinder and in part 3 we will discuss why LDS women love Tinder.

Before we get into a discussion of Tinder, let’s get one thing straight, Tinder is an awful place.  Check out this analysis of the horrific nature of Tinder.  As we get into our discussion of the Tinder phenomenon, let’s keep it clear that Tinder is a brutal place and is a sign of a society in decline.  In this discussion on Tinder I will heavily focus on why it appeals to women because women control the dating market.  Men go where the attractive women are.  If women are on Tinder, then men have to use it because that’s where the women are.  If the church wants single adults to stop using Tinder it must find a way to inspire LDS women not to want to use it.

The most important reason why LDS church leadership hates Tinder so much is because it allows women to engage in sexual promiscuity with reckless abandon.  Let’s face it, in Utah or in the single adult community outside Utah, if a woman is promiscuous, people hear about it.  One thing women want to avoid at all costs is the appearance of being promiscuous.  All women, especially promiscuous women, want men to believe that they “aren’t like that” and that they are “good girls.”  Tinder allows women to engage in all kinds of bad behavior without her friends or people in her ward or local community ever finding out about it.  The secrecy element of Tinder allows women to engage in anything and nobody will ever bet the wiser for it.

Church leaders hate Tinder because it forces them to notice that many LDS women are every bit as sexually promiscuous as non LDS women.  Let’s face it, for every “so I met this guy on Tinder,” every LDS bishop hears, there are many more of these incidents he never hears about.  Before Tinder, church leadership could tell itself that it was evil boyfriends seducing innocent women into doing things they never would choose to do of their own free will and desire.  Many people who believe in traditional beliefs want to believe that the women in their community are not like the women in the rest of the world.

The myth that women only engaged in sexual promiscuity because they wanted a boyfriend and they thought the only way to get one was by being promiscuous, was a myth many traditional people wanted to believe.  Tinder totally and completely destroys that myth.  After hearing lots of confessions of, “so I met this guy on Tinder” church leaders have to conclude that women are on Tinder because they want to and they are doing whatever because they want to.

Church leadership hates Tinder because people go on Tinder looking for highly attractive members of the opposite sex.  Tinder is a place where highly attractive people go to find highly attractive people, or attractive men dumpster dive with not so attractive women.  Marginally attractive women can get attention from highly attractive men on Tinder.  Let’s face it, there are lots of men who are perfectly happy to engage in sexual behavior with marginally attractive women.  These kinds of highly attractive men have no interest in a relationship with marginally attractive women, but they are more than happy to have a one night stand with marginally attractive women.  Marginally attractive women are happy to get attention from highly attractive men even for an evening because the highly attractive man is much better than the marginal men she usually gets attention from.  After people from Tinder meet up, things “just happen.”

Church leadership hates Tinder because let’s face it, men available on Tinder are much better than the men in the local YSA ward.  When you ask most LDS single adults about the local single adult ward, most just roll their eyes and talk about how there is nobody interesting there.  Both men and women usually make this statement.  For women, men on Tinder are far more interesting than the men she sees at church.  Let’s face it, the men on Tinder may or may not be very interesting, but she knows the men in her ward aren’t interesting.

LDS church leadership hates Tinder because the men who get “swiped right” do not respond to “counsel” warning them to stay off Tinder.  Because they are the kind of men who ignore church leadership’s “counsel” to stay off Tinder, staying on Tinder makes them more interesting than average LDS men from the local YSA ward who do take church leadership’s “counsel” to get off Tinder seriously.

Mormon church leadership is correct to hate Tinder because it allows LDS women to be sexually promiscuous in relative secrecy, it allows marginally attractive women to receive attention from more interesting men than they can attract in real life, it allows all LDS women to get attention from men better than the men they have access to in their real lives and because men who successfully use Tinder do not respond to “counsel” telling them to get off Tinder.  And most of all Mormon church leadership hates Tinder because every time a bishop hears, “so I met this guy on Tinder” he learns that many LDS women are promiscuous.

In part 2 we will take a look at why Mormon church leaders are barking up the wrong tree by telling men to stop using Tinder.